Members’ Virtual Bar: Fridays
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Spiritual Emergence March 12, 2021
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Spiritual Emergence March 12, 2021
19:58:59 From Jessica Corneille : Spiritual Crisis Network: https://spiritualcrisisnetwork.uk
International Spiritual Emergence Network: http://www.spiritualemergencenetwork.org
ACISTE: https://aciste.org
19:59:07 From Denise Gurney : What do you do before enlightenment? chop wood, and what do you do afterwards, chop wood.
19:59:07 From Scientific and Medical Network : Yes the ‘Hardy question’ about spiritual experience in general is 66%
19:59:09 From Natalie Tobert : lovely book covering these topics in Chapter 10 – 15 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cultural-Perspectives-Mental-Wellbeing-Natalie/dp/1785920847/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1484235927&sr=8-1
19:59:47 From Linda Carroll : Very good, thanks Denise – so true!
20:02:00 From Judy Hanmer : The Alister Hardy Society has been publishing books about these sort of experiences since the 1970s. They are now part of Lampeter University.
20:02:42 From Linda Carroll : Thank you Judy, very helpful.
20:03:39 From Jeannet Weurman : There may be a sense you can’t capture it in words, so talking about it tries to pin something down – you use fluidity.
20:03:45 From Scientific and Medical Network : Yes that’s what I am referring to Judy
20:04:53 From Natalie Tobert : Cultural Perspectives on Mental Wellbeing: Spiritual Interpretations of Symptoms in Medical Practice. by Natalie Tobert. has six chapters on anomalous experiences.
20:05:10 From Linda Carroll : Conservative Irish Catholicism had a very negative influence in my life. I ‘broke-free
20:05:18 From Natalie Tobert : TOBERT N 2007
also by Natalie…. In-Sanity: Explanatory Models for Religious Experience, Occasional Paper no.3, Series 3, Religious Experience Research Centre, University of Wales, Lampeter
20:05:21 From Christine Smith : I agree with Bernard. My experience was over 20years ago, an I still haven’t found anyone that I can discuss it with openly.
20:06:14 From Judy Hanmer : I am very careful who I talk to about my experiences. It is so easy to have people rubbish them.
20:06:29 From Denise Gurney : Well done Tanya, my experience was more like yours too
20:06:31 From Linda Carroll : ‘It depends what you mean by ‘God’. Jordan Petersen.
20:06:32 From Jeannet Weurman : Emerging Proud was set up to facilitate people sharing such and other anomalous experiences, and to reframe them as spiritual emergence, rather than ‘mental illness’. They have a short film about people’s exe
20:06:46 From Jeannet Weurman : experiences on their website. https://emergingproud.com/
20:07:37 From Natalie Tobert : Yes Jeannet, Emerging Proud is a good source for people who have experience.
20:08:35 From Sue : so sorry I have to leave for an IONs mtg. Thank you. Jessica
20:09:25 From Scientific and Medical Network : VRE – one of the greatest books in this field – read it in 1978
20:09:26 From Jeannet Weurman : And an interesting film by anthropologist Phil Borges on how other cultures understand and support such experiences – https://crazywisefilm.com/
20:11:53 From Judy Hanmer : These experiences are so very different in quality than ego trips!
20:11:55 From Tanya & Armando : Crazywise is a really great film to understand Spiritual Emergencies
20:12:00 From Natalie Tobert : authentic – sounds like a bit of a judgemental term
20:12:08 From Denise Gurney : I agree Paul, I don’t think it’s about changing your life
20:13:36 From Christine Smith : KARMA11
20:14:41 From Linda Carroll : But the realm beyond the psyche is the cosmos and the Divine. These are levels that are unknown to us. Only in awe/wonder and a sense of majesty. The psyche is connected in some sense of course but it is ineffable.
20:15:18 From Denise Gurney : agreed Linda, well said
20:16:20 From Jeannet Weurman : I wonder if it is helpful to think in terms of what is within and ‘beyond’, god or ego – if there is a non-local / Akashic field all is part of one whole … perhaps we resonate at times with an experience which maybe is always there and permeates everything. Also false claims of experiences don’t deny the genuine ones.
20:17:30 From Linda Carroll : Yes, the cultural context is the core of the differences. Underlying these diversities we participate in a universal realm.
20:18:04 From Ghislaine Young : Yes absolutely right Linda
20:18:18 From Linda Carroll : The sacred and the profane, thanks Verena.
20:20:09 From Linda Carroll : Perhaps the spiritual experience is best expressed in the language of poetry/metaphor. I agree though with Jessica that it is very helpful to acknowledge that a ‘spiritual experience’ has occurred.
20:20:53 From Linda Carroll : Yes Jessica, I agree, there is an ethical side to helping others to ‘come out’.
20:21:09 From Tanya & Armando : I feel there is a difference between a “spiritual experience” and a “Spiritual Emergence” or “Emergency” – at least in my experience. (Tanya)
20:22:42 From Jeannet Weurman : http://stangrof.com/
20:23:37 From Linda Carroll : Our present contemporary society is not at all conducive to such experiences.
20:26:21 From Denise Gurney : When people have a ‘download’ of spiritual energy or information we need to trust that they are in the perfect situation to sort themselves out, to integrate and to work with that new state
20:26:31 From Linda Carroll : Reminds me of Iain McGilchrist right/left brain hemispheres. The ideal being an articulated understanding of both realms.
20:28:58 From Linda Carroll : Understanding the symbols and archetypes is essential. Overwhelming the ego into collapse.
20:28:59 From Denise Gurney : Thank you one and all for a fantastic discussion. Well done Jessica. Paul, I thought dissolution of the ego was the point? gotta go now. thanks
20:29:17 From Judy Hanmer : Thank you Jessica for opening up this important subject. Unfortunately have to leave for another meeting.
20:30:27 From Judy Hanmer : Just have to add that I don’t think Jung’s experiences recounted in the Red Book were the same sort of thing that Jessica is talking about. However Jung did have an NDE also later in life.
20:31:46 From Jeannet Weurman : Sadly, I also have to go. Same meeting Judy is going to. Thanks very much, Jessica and everyone for an interesting meeting. x
20:32:31 From Linda Carroll : Thanks so much Christine
20:33:27 From marilyn monk : I agree with Denise that the whoosh out into this other realm is a dissolution of the ego. Perhaps it cannot be sought but is something that happens to you when ego outside of the and s
20:33:54 From marilyn monk : when ego is dropped outside of time an space
20:34:02 From Alison Wakelin : Thank you Christine, that was very open and honest of you. Very real.
20:35:04 From Katherine Darton : https://spiritualcrisisnetwork.uk/ The Spiritual Crisis Network is a UK non-profit organisation that provides support and resources to help make meaning of and integrate a crisis experience, resulting in the relief of suffering and more positive outcomes.
20:35:31 From Verena Davis : Yoga classes/yoga teachers are not necessarily a panacea for holding or understanding spiritual emergencies .
20:37:27 From Helena : No … but yoga practice helps integrate subtle energies and is very grounding. Best support is a good therapist who is specialized in the field … and belonging to a community.
20:37:31 From Linda Carroll : ‘The Never-Ending Story’.
20:38:53 From Ghislaine Young : The mystery deepens and as truth is revealed the more we realise what we don’t yet understand
20:39:14 From Fiona B : Appreciate that many people will come down but some people don’t – my sister was not supported and ended up in psychosis and has not recovered from it. It is usually treated as an illness by the psychiatric profession and often only treated with drugs.
20:39:18 From Linda Carroll : Thank you Tess, that is very helpful.
20:39:28 From Scientific and Medical Network : This conversation is of the essence of the Network as George Blaker envisaged it
20:40:06 From Linda Carroll : But also that it’s not forgiveness – ‘we are all innocent
20:40:23 From Natalie Tobert : Fiona B if it is possible – for your sister, contact Open Dialogue
20:40:45 From Fiona B : Already did that but left to late – too set in
20:40:49 From Linda Carroll : Wonderful conversation.
20:40:56 From Helena : Denise … yes ego dissolves in these experiences but a restructuring process then takes place …. a new psychic restructuring. We need our egos to function in this works … and the
20:41:11 From Helena : in this world 😚
20:41:23 From Natalie Tobert : Fiona B – your GP can make a referral https://www.nelft.nhs.uk/aboutus-initiatives-opendialogue
20:44:07 From Jessica Corneille : Wales 1904 – Western Mail
20:45:36 From Jessica Corneille : Spiritual Crisis Network: https://spiritualcrisisnetwork.uk
International Spiritual Emergence Network: http://www.spiritualemergencenetwork.org
ACISTE: https://aciste.org
20:46:09 From Peter Hardwick : From Peter Hardwick to Paul – may I say something please
20:46:31 From Ghislaine Young : One of my children had a life changing profound religious experience that opened his heart to universal love but it also felt very personal, he felt loved and held. He’d call this a religious awakening others a spiritual awakening? My own experience is many glimpses of grace to echo verena beautiful phrase, dreams, intuitions, etc that one at a time changed my perspective and my direction and sense of reality. Spiritual awakening needs to be shared and is a way of transcending time across the ages, think of Julian of Norwich her showings that seem to be written by a woman of today! Marvellous!
20:46:35 From Yohance : https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/what-would-happen-if-everyone-truly-believed-everything-is-one/
20:47:32 From Verena Davis : By living that way Yohance.
20:47:43 From Linda Carroll : Education is foundational and that needs to have a definition of WHAT it is to be Human. That is The Core.
20:48:31 From Linda Carroll : As human beings we are born into specific cultural constructs but we transcend these diversities in our oneness as humanity.
20:49:15 From Leila Yazigi/Jeantelot : Thank you so much Jessica for this interesting session. Love and light to all
20:49:36 From Rowena Fairbairn : most religions have the words/or similar to, treat your neighbour as yourself.
20:50:02 From Linda Carroll : Saying that we are ALL spiritual beings within Oneness sends alarm bells ringing in contemporary western ‘cultures’.
20:50:21 From Ghislaine Young : Love is to see there is no other
20:50:58 From Linda Carroll : Yes, thank you Jessica we participate within the wholeness of our existence.
20:51:56 From Linda Carroll : Yes, another evening of this subject would be very beneficial.
20:53:03 From Helena : thanks Jessica and Paul and all … I’d love another evening on this …
20:53:26 From Scientific and Medical Network : TS Eliot – had the experience and missed the meaning!
20:53:33 From Ghislaine Young : Me too please
20:53:54 From Tanya & Armando : A book of people sharing their personal Spiritual Emergencies: Breaking Open: Finding a Way Through Spiritual Emergency
20:54:02 From Tanya & Armando : https://www.aeonbooks.co.uk/product/breaking-open-finding-a-way-through-spiritual-emergency/94497/
20:54:09 From Scientific and Medical Network : Maybe ask Steve to join us next week?
20:54:16 From Linda Carroll : Perhaps it is far more appropriate to acknowledge that we ALL have cultural experiences that are constrictive and constraining and we need to open the constructs and break-free.
20:54:52 From Rowena Fairbairn : Attempt to be a human being and not a human doing.
20:55:23 From Scientific and Medical Network : Rare? Not in Holland! (From Marianne)
20:55:38 From Linda Carroll : We are ALL a Becoming – hopefully.
20:56:20 From Natalie Tobert : Not in the world – according to NT
20:57:48 From Scientific and Medical Network : In but not of the world!
20:58:43 From Helena : here here, Natalie … I’m with you. way to go. x
21:00:00 From Linda Carroll : That is so heartening, thank you Natalie.
21:01:06 From Rowena Fairbairn : Great to hear of your work and mission, Natalie. So much needed.
21:01:12 From Linda Carroll : Everything is contextual.
21:02:10 From Natalie Tobert : it depends on the context – and the beliefs of the observer.
21:02:24 From Linda Carroll : Maybe we need to retrieve the mythologies that gave access to these realms.
21:03:10 From Linda Carroll : I would love a conversation on mythologies/archetypes/symbols etc.
21:03:30 From Christine Smith : Thank you Jessica, and Paul. It is good to release some of the inner turmoil. I hope we can talk more on this topic
21:03:58 From Linda Carroll : That would be wonderful. Thank you.
21:04:12 From Linda Carroll : Thank you so much Jessica.
21:04:22 From Verena Davis : You’re right Paul, room for a lot more exploration.
21:04:46 From Verena Davis : Thank you Paul and all.
21:04:50 From Rowena Fairbairn : Thanks Jessica for starting us off and Paul for leading us through – great evening.
21:04:53 From Tanya & Armando : Thank you Jessica and to all who have contributed and shared : )
21:05:19 From Jennifer Rossetti : Beautiful presentation Jessica! Thank you so much!
21:05:40 From Alan Malby : Thank you
21:05:40 From Jessica Corneille : Hi everyone, feel free to contact me at [email protected] if you like.
21:05:59 From Brenda Freeman : thank you Jessica
21:06:05 From monika : Thanks a million Jessica, it was great!!!
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1 Reply
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A recent article by Steve Taylor on the role of bereavement in Spiritual Emergence.
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